Yasnodark

Καλώς ήρθες!

(de) Willkommen
(en) Welcome
(eo) Bonvenon
(es) Bienvenido
(fr) Bienvenue
(it) Benvenuto
(pt) Βem-vindo
(ru) Добро пожаловать

Yasnodark, καλώς όρισες στη Βικιπαίδεια! Αυτοί είναι μερικοί σύνδεσμοι που θα σου φανούν χρήσιμοι:

Εισαγωγή και συχνές ερωτήσεις
Τα 5 θεμέλια της Βικιπαίδειας και κάποιοι απλοί κανόνες
Βασική πολιτική (ουδετερότητα, επαληθευσιμότητα, όχι πρωτότυπη έρευνα)
Εγκυκλοπαιδικότητα (κριτήρια συμπερίληψης θεμάτων)
Βοήθεια
Οδηγός για νέους χρήστες
Πρόχειρο (σελίδα για πειραματισμούς στην επεξεργασία σελίδων)

Εγχειρίδιο χρήσης του νέου επεξεργαστή κειμένων

Μπορείς να υπογράφεις στις σελίδες συζήτησης γράφοντας ~~~~ ή πατώντας το κουμπί της υπογραφής (). Για οποιαδήποτε βοήθεια ή απορία, μπορείς να απευθυνθείς στην Αγορά. Καλή συνέχεια! --Dodos (συζήτηση) 13:48, 15 Ιουνίου 2016 (UTC)Απάντηση

Wikimedia_CEE_Spring_2021/Structure/Ukraine Επεξεργασία

Τελευταίο σχόλιο: πριν από 2 έτη15 σχόλια2 πρόσωπα στη συζήτηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! I see you are actively writing about Ukraine. Perhaps you will be interested in such articles about Ukrainian personalities: en:Yuriy Drohobych, Yuriy Woronyi, en:Volodymyr Ivasyuk, Yuriy Kondratyuk, Valentyn Mankin, en:Mykola Rudenko, de:Oles Berdnyk, Mykola Strazhesko, en:Ivan Pulyui, en:Vasyl Stus, en:Valeriy Lobanovskyi, Mykhaylo Ostrohradsky, Pavlo Popovych, en:Mykola Lysenko, en:Ivan Franko, Olexandr Dovzhenko, Serhiy Bondarchuk, en:Symon Petliura, en:Ivan Mazepa, en:Symon Petliura, Olexandr Archipenko, Yuriy Lisyansky, en:Mykola Leontovych, en:Yuriy Sedykh, en:Valeriy Borzov, Valentyn Glushko, en:Sonia Delaunay, en:Pavlo Skoropadskyi, Volodymyr Holubnychyy, Serhiy Lyfar, Yuriy Knorozov, Stepan Tymoshenko,Dmytro Levytzkyi, Ivan Piddubnyi, Maria Bashkyrtseva, Hryhoriy Skovoroda, en:Inessa Kravets, Danylo of Halychyna, Mykhaylo Hrushevskyi, Oksana Bayul, en:Erwin Chargaff, en:Lilia Podkopayeva, Oleksandra Ekster, Dmytro Bortnianskyi, Oleh Bryzhak, Yun Kum, en:Bohdan Bondarenko, en:Viktor Chukarin, en:Andriy Medvedev, en:Borys Paton, en:Serhiy Zhadan, en:Lina Kostenko, en:David Burliuk, en:Bohdan Stupka, en:Solomiya Krushelnytska, en:Maryna Viazovska, en:Oksana Zabuzhko, en:Viktor Petrenko, en:Yuriy Cheban, en:Viacheslav Chornovil, Klym Churyumov, en:Oleksandr Abramenko, Serhiy Loznytsia, en:Yana Shemyakina, en:Oles Honchar, Vira Kholodna, en:Valentyn Sylvestrov, en:Pylyp Orlyk, Hrygoriy Kriss, en:Kvitka Cisyk, en:Inna Osypenko-Radomska, en:Olena Kostevych?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:30, 28 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Thank you for your suggestions. I will definitely write at least one of them in the next weeks that CEE Spring is running (which is very successful in the Greek version this year, with more than 940 articles, as in Ukrainian). Have a nice day and nice contributions. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 20:32, 29 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello! Thank you very much for your contribution and wish, I also wish you a good mood and contribution to the development of Wikipedia and sincerely hope that you will be able to implement your ideas for writing some of the proposed articles on Ukrainian topics.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:22, 30 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: You're welcome. Yes, I will write a few articles, starting with Russians and Russian language in Ukraine, in order to give the ability to the readers of the project to learn more why there is a lot of tension between Russia and Ukraine. After historical and other articles will follow. Also wishing the same too, have a nice day and contributions. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 14:33, 30 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Thank you, but tell me please, are you a Greek by nationality or someone else, because I'm afraid that you might get the wrong impression about the problems in Ukraine and the reasons for the war?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:54, 30 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

It's just that if you are Greek, and judging by your nickname you are, I could explain to you in detail the situation in Ukraine and give an idea of the language problem in Ukraine. For example, I am very little aware of the situation in Greece, I think that you will also learn about Ukraine only from the news. And they are often fake. If you want, I'll explain it to you next week.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:44, 30 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Yes, I am an ethnic Greek from Greece. I have heard of (and also researched) at some point the topics about language problem in Ukraine and the conflict. Regarding the linguistic situation in Greece, there was a question on what standard should be used (Katharevousa, an archaic form or demotic, the vernacular) but the latter prevailed with the end of the monarchy in 1974, in 1976 (and the switch to monotonic from polytonic, as in ancient Greek, spelling happened in 1982). There is also a question (in Western Thrace) in what scale Turkish is spoken there, while another issue is the freedom of press and the democratic freedoms here. Yes, I watch it mostly from the news, which have played it in their first headlines for days (mostly describing the situation, without so much insight for what causes it), but Wikipedia has helped me to get an understanding. I would like to read your explanation about the situation, given that as an Ukrainian you know the situation in Ukraine better than me. I am very interested in ethnology and demographics, and foreign affairs/history at general, being a generally frequent subject of my article production in the Greek version. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 23:23, 30 Απριλίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello!

The situation with the Ukrainian language in Ukraine and Ukrainian lands in adjacent and other Ukrainian lands in Russia is a bit similar to the situation in Turkey and Cyprus, once the population of Asia Minor and the islands was almost entirely Greek speaking Greek, and now a third of the population of Cyprus and most of Western and Central Turkey is inhabited by Turkic-speaking people. The seizure of Crimea and Donbass is just a continuation of the previous aggressive actions of neighboring Russia - Starodubshina, en:Sloboda Ukraine, Kuban, Donshina, Stavropillia, en:Green Ukraine, en:Grey Ukraine and other lands, you are at least lucky that a group of advanced Greeks did not offer the Turks invaders to call themselves Greece. After all, three hundred years ago, several leading Ukrainians-Rusyns suggested that Moscovia should be called Russia after the seizure of Ukraine, which is a Latinized version of the term Rus. Since then, Russia has been massively destroying Ukrainian books and language, and appropriates the entire heritage of Kievan Rus for itself.

For the last 8 centuries, Muscovites, the ancestors of modern Russians, have been trying to seize Ukrainian lands, appropriate the heritage of Kievan Rus'-Ukraine, and have banned the Ukrainian language, destroyed Ukrainian culture, and repressed Ukrainians:

en:History of Ukrainian nationality, en:List of Ukrainian rulers, en:History of Ukraine, en:Chronology of Ukrainian language suppression, en:Russification of Ukraine, uk:Розорення Києва (1169), uk:Київське повстання (1157), Danylo of Halychyna, en:Battle of Orsha, uk:Військо Запорозьке, en:Zaporozhian Sich, uk:Козацька рада, en:Khmelnytsky Uprising, en:Pereyaslav Council, en:Battle of Konotop, en:Pereyaslav Articles, en:The Ruin (Ukrainian history), en:Cossack Hetmanate, en:Truce of Andrusovo,en:The Ruin (Ukrainian history), uk:Антимосковське повстання 1668, uk:Повстання Гадяцького полку 1687, uk:Генеральна карта України, uk:Батуринська трагедія, en:Battle of Poltava, en:Ivan Mazepa, uk:Знищення Запорозької Січі (1709), en:Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk,uk:Каральна експедиція московських військ в Україну (1709), uk:Згін населення з Правобережної України в Лівобережну (1711—1712), en:Повстання в Запорізькій Січі (1768), uk:Ліквідація Запорозької Січі (1775),uk:Січневе повстання на Правобережній Україні (1863—1864), uk:Антикріпосницький рух в Україні (1789-1861), en:Ems Ukaz, en:Valuev Circular, en:Borys Paton, uk:Куренівське повстання, en:Ukrainian People's Republic, en:Battle of Kruty, en:Ukrainian State, en:Pavlo Skoropadskyi, en:West Ukrainian People's Republic, en:Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, en:Soviet–Ukrainian War, en:Ukrainian War of Independence, Mykhaylo Hrushevskyi, en:Directorate of Ukraine, en:Directorate of Ukraine, uk:Голодомор в Україні (1921—1923), en:Kholodny Yar Republic, uk:Українізація (1920—1930-ті), uk:Колективізація в УРСР, uk:Індустріалізація УРСР 1920—1930-х років, en:VAPLITE, en:Executed Renaissance, en:Holodomor genocide question, en:Holodomor, en:Ukrainian Insurgent Army, en:Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, uk:Організація українських націоналістів революційна, uk:Підрив Києва 1941 року, uk:Депортація українців з Польщі до УРСР, uk:Депортація кримських народів у СРСР, uk:Депортації українців у часи СРСР, uk:Голодомор в Україні (1946—1947), , uk:Український дисидентський рух в СРСР en:Operation Vistula, en:Vasyl Stus, uk:Закон УРСР «Про мови в Українській РСР», en:Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances,en:Viacheslav Chornovil, uk:Убивство Георгія Гонгадзе, en:Cassette Scandal, en:Ukraine without Kuchma en:2003 Tuzla Island conflict, uk:Російсько-українська транзитна війна, en:Russia–Ukraine gas disputes, en:Russian embargo of Ukrainian goods, uk:Закон України «Про засади державної мовної політики», uk:Мовний майдан, uk:Податковий майдан, uk:Сирна війна, uk:Список вибухів та пожеж на військових складах в Україні, en:Demolition of monuments to Vladimir Lenin in Ukraine, uk:Список українських політв'язнів у Російській Федерації та в Криму, en:List of people killed during the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, en:List of people killed during the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, en:List of journalists murdered in Ukraine, uk:Шоколадна війна (2013), uk:Втрати силових структур внаслідок російського вторгнення в Україну, uk:Втрати силових структур внаслідок російського вторгнення в Україну (липень 2014), uk:Катування та вбивства військовополонених під час війни на сході України,uk:Томос про автокефалію Православної церкви України, uk:Список іноземних громадян, що публічно підтримали Україну під час Революції гідності чи російської агресії в Україні, en:January 2015 Mariupol rocket attack, uk:Убивство Павла Шеремета,en:Kerch Strait incident, en:2017 cyberattacks on Ukraine, en:Ukrainians in Russia,uk:Закон України «Про забезпечення функціонування української мови як державної» . However, Ukrainians managed to resist this for a long time. But not in the 20th century.

In 1917, Ukrainians made up the majority of the population in an area of more than 1 million square kilometers on their basic ethnic lands, in the same area - more than 1 million square kilometers - on lands of colonial development in the Far East, as well as on an area of more than 400,000 square kilometers Southern Siberia and Northern Kazakhstan, and 100-200 thousand square kilometers in the Volga region en:Yellow Ukraine and Prykhoper. The vast majority of these Ukrainians spoke exclusively Ukrainian. Everywhere in these lands the Ukrainian language dominated, and the Russian language, despite previous centuries of oppression, prevailed only in the then few individual cities. On the other hand, these areas, which now cover an area of more than 2.6 million square kilometers, are almost universally dominated by Russia. This applies not only to the Far East, Southern Siberia, the North Caucasus, the Volga region and Prykhoper, Brest region, other Ukrainian lands around Ukraine, but also Eastern and Southern Ukraine, where the Ukrainian language is preserved in fragments in a few villages.

On the territory of modern Ukraine in 1917 the population was over 38.8 people, of whom Russians were less than 3 million people. In general, Ukraine currently ranks 8-9th in the world in terms of population. Birth rates and natural population growth were highest in Europe, second only to South Asia. For comparison, in 1989 Russians numbered more than 11 million and more than 17 million p 51 million called Russian their native language.

This is the result of total Russification, repression and mass extermination of Ukrainians and in particular the Ukrainian intelligentsia in Soviet times. After Bolshevik Russia seized most of Ukraine's lands in 1919, this situation could not last long. The Red Terror began, the first famine took place, Ukrainian Communist fighters, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Mensheviks were expelled from political life, the uprising and the Kholodnoyarsk Republic in particular were suppressed, but shortly before Lenin's death Trotsky came to power: a new economic policy and Ukrainization began lands in response to Ukraine's demands to quell resistance. After all, the Ukrainian authorities regularly threatened to leave the USSR, to which they were entitled under the Constitution, and demanded the annexation of other ethnic indigenous Ukrainian lands to Ukraine and the industrialization and electrification of the republic. In 1924, a joint commission agreed to annex part of the Ukrainian lands, and this decision was protested by Russia and revoked, while Ukraine was repulsed from Chekhov's hometown of Taganrog and its environs and the Eastern Donbass. In 1927 with the arrival of Stalin everything became much worse: negative processes of dekulakization and collectivization began, and in 1932-33 it all ended with an artificial Holodomor, during which millions of Ukrainian peasants were killed, villages were emptied and partly replaced by Russians. Ukrainization was completely stopped on Ukrainian ethnic lands outside Ukraine, its communist leader Mykola Skrypnyk with all his heart and soul and all other Ukrainian communists were proclaimed bourgeois nationalists. Skrypnyk shot himself in an attempt to stop the Holodomor and stop Ukrainization. Almost 2,000 Ukrainian schools were simultaneously closed outside Ukraine on Ukrainian lands - indigenous and colonial, leaving only a few. The largest settlements in the Kuban and the largest patriots of Ukraine were deported to Siberia. Most of Skrypnyk's associates in the Communist Party of Ukraine were repressed. Later, Lyubchenko and other communists who believed the authorities in the nationalism of the repressed were also repressed because they thought it inappropriate to learn Russian from the first grade in Ukraine, because children would be confused about which language was their mother tongue and what to study from the 5th grade as a foreign language. They were also called nationalists. At the same time, scientists and cultural figures were destroyed and repressed. The latter were called "Shot Revival". Survivors, such as Pavlo Tychyna or Oleksandr Dovzhenko, never became the same as before, many scientists and soldiers were tortured to death, and those who survived the war and the need for it died later. Sergei Korolev, who launched the first satellite and the first humans into space, was preparing to fly to Mars when he needed a simple operation, he died on the table, in the 1930s the NKVD broke his jaw and he could not breathe.

But it was later, and after the repressions in which 6 to 12 million Ukrainians died in Ukraine alone, because the Holodomor was on all Ukrainian lands, not only in the USSR, the Second World War began in the USSR, repression and dekulakization in occupied Western Ukraine, and then the mass deportation of Western Ukrainians to Siberia after the Eastern ones. During the war, almost unarmed Ukrainians were used as cannon fodder, according to Zhukov's slogan "women will still give birth." Russian authorities blew up a number of streets and bridges during the departure of Dniproges, killing hundreds of thousands. and Ukraine during the occupation was led by a hidden Kremlin agent, Koch, whom the Soviets helped evade justice after the war, who carried out the most brutal repression against Ukrainians and Jews, who were almost nowhere but Poland among the occupied lands to form an enemy. Almost all NKVD officers joined the Gestapo and continued the repression. The resistance was led by young people, nationalists from the OUN and UPA. Then the Bolsheviks called the OUN cells the Komsomol underground and posthumously glorified it, as happened with the so-called Young Guard, which was actually an OUN cell, it was exposed by Volodymyr Semistyaga, who was later captured by militants in eastern Ukraine in 2014 and miraculously escaped. During the war, Ukraine's population officially declined by more than 14 million, 8-10 million died, others were evacuated and barred from returning to Asian lands, and none of the hundreds of evacuated businesses returned to Ukraine. Crimean Tatars and some Ukrainians were deported, Stalin generally offered to deport all Ukrainians. Millions of repressed Ukrainians set up other businesses in Russia and Central Asia for free because they were few. Ukrainians also built roads and dug canals there until their deaths. After the war, a new 3rd Holodomor began in Ukraine, and repression reached its apogee: everyone who was in the occupied territories was considered an enemy, speaking Ukrainian in cities outside of Western Ukraine became extremely dangerous. My grandmother's subconscious fear persisted until 2014, only then did she start speaking Ukrainian again, and I didn't even know that she and her parents who died in the 1930s were Ukrainian-speaking. He thought it was just her grandfather. The fear was total, so almost the entire urban population was Russified, Russians came en masse, whose children were allowed not to learn Ukrainian for health reasons and who called Ukrainian the "language of calves" because they heard it only from visitors from the village. The latter also tried unsuccessfully to switch to elite safe Russian, they did not succeed and a surzhik was born, a distorted pidgin - a cross between Ukrainian and Russian, and their children no longer understood the difference between languages or switched to Russian.

All this lasted for years and only slightly weakened during the Thaw and during the coming to power of Khrushchev after Stalin's death. But this did not last long, although at that time a new generation of Ukrainian intelligentsia was born - white crows - the Sixties, who tried to restore Ukrainian culture, but the arrests continued, in particular, imprisoned communist fighter Levko Lukyanenko, our Nelson Mandela. who spent more than a quarter of a century in prison, and when he graduated in 1989 he became a deputy and wrote a declaration of independence. There were also mass shootings in Novocherkassk, which had been ousted from Ukraine in 1924, and other repressions, and things got much worse with the arrival of Brezhnev and the subsequent removal of the patriotic Ukrainian communist leader Shelest and his replacement by Shcherbytsky from Brezhnev's circle. Russification, in particular, all scientific and other professional journals in one day in 1972 ceased to be published in Ukrainian and became Russian-speaking. Similarly, Ukrainian schools were translated en masse into Russian. There are more Russian schools in Ukraine than Ukrainian ones, and there are almost no Russian schools in Donbass and Crimea. Scherbytsky left only in 1989, and before that there was the Chernobyl disaster, which occurred as a result of a hellish experiment, which was not agreed to by any other station in Russia. This is the official version. One of the hypotheses of the catastrophe is even worse and connects the accident with the object "Arc" and is set out in the documentary film "Russian Woodpecker".

Unfortunately, after the proclamation of independence, the regression stopped, but Russification continued, even in 2014 there were thousands of Ukrainian schools in Ukraine. In Russia, on the other hand, of the 25 million ethnic Ukrainians, only 2-3 million retained their Ukrainian identity and even less their language. And at that time there were hundreds of Russian-language schools in the Ukrainian Crimea and only 6 Ukrainian-language ones, thus oppressing Russians in the Crimea.

After the en:Revolution on Granite and the subsequent declaration of independence, former Soviet elites, diluted by bandits, came to power in Ukraine, so the world's 8th largest economy was looted and sold for nothing, as is Europe's largest army with the world's third nuclear arsenal. slowed down, but not for long, and Ukrainization in the South and East was too lenient. So in these lands year after year Ukrainian speakers died, and even Ukrainian-speaking people switched to Russian en masse, the result was the Russification of even those regions and localities that were still Ukrainian-speaking in Soviet times, it happened by inertia, but there were some positive trends : new Ukrainian music and other manifestations of art appeared, but everything happened without significant assistance from the state. However, there was hope that everything would change for the better. However, things changed for the worse when the current leader came to power in Russia. Initially, the leader of the pro-Ukrainian opposition, Chornovil, was assassinated, and then-President Kuchma was also dissatisfied with them because he began to move Ukraine toward NATO and slowly break away from Russia. Following a pro-Russian cluster scandal sparking the assassination of journalist Gongadze at the behest of pro-Russian Kremlin protege General Kravchenko, the "Ukraine without Kuchma" campaign began, ending in defeat. from Ukraine and Kuchma found himself in isolation, which is what she wanted in Russia, so the new head of the presidential administration was a former KGB lawyer Medvedchuk, who imprisoned a number of political prisoners in Soviet times, in particular because of him died Vasily Stus in the year of Nobel Prize nomination from the literature. Another Moscow agent, Tabachnyk, has become education minister, and Yanukovych, who has been convicted four times in particular of robbery and rape and twice convicted, has become prime minister. The trio has begun a new phase of Russification in Ukraine.

The vast majority of the press was published in Russian, TV channels and especially radio stations also preferred the Russian language, for example, high-quality Ukrainian music was not rotated under the pretext of "no format", because most media belonged to pro-Russian forces. Ironically, it got even worse after the Orange Revolution, when Yanukovych's opponent Yushchenko came to power. Because pro-Russian forces felt the danger. However, in his pro-Ukrainian foreign policy, he twice conspired with Yanukovych: first recognizing him as prime minister, campaigning against his opponent Tymoshenko in the 2010 election, defeating Yanukovych and Tabachnyk heading the Ministry of Education again, and passing the anti-Ukrainian Kivalov-Kolesnichenko language law. ", which allowed further teaching in schools and universities in Russian and officials do not know Ukrainian. Yanukovych's three rise to power made the youth even more Russified than my generation. In the top 100 of today's YouTube preferences are 2-3 high-quality Ukrainian clips and two dozen low-quality Russian ones. I don't know why their youth listens. Also on Shazam. After the Revolution of Dignity, when Yanukovych refused to sign an Association Agreement with the EU because of the Kremlin's threats to take Crimea and economic problems, pro-Russian forces behind the reluctant and foolish Yanukovych brutally dispersed a small student square, leaving millions for human dignity. The inflexible Yanukovych, who made concessions late, did not want to punish the perpetrators with billions of dollars in budget money after the bloody shootings on the Maidan by Russian-recruited special forces, most likely on the orders of Yanukovych's son and Gray Cardinal Klyuyev. After Yanukovych fled and was ousted by the Kremlin and wanted to bring Russian troops back to Ukraine, Russia seized Crimea when Ukraine was in a state of transition and Yanukovych's army collapsed, taking advantage of a contrived pretext and an unrealized attempt to repeal anti-Ukrainian Kivalov-Kolesnichenko language law.. Later, Girkin and other Russian special forces under the cover of the Russian Church in Ukraine landed and captured Slovyansk and an unprovoked war began in the Donbass. It should be noted that the chosen places were chosen not in vain: for all Yanukovych's pro-Russianism, he also fought in his own way for energy independence and began to develop the largest gas fields in Eastern Europe on the Black Sea near Crimea and wanted to develop shale gas near Slavyansk. In both cases there were contracts with Shell. As a result, the Crimean deposits were captured, in the east the development did not take place due to the war. In the occupied Crimea and the East, the Ukrainian language is virtually banned, and local basements and concentration camps are killed and tortured for it. Not many pro-Russian locals and tens of thousands of Russians fought voluntarily in Donbass, and Russia brought more tanks, artillery and modern equipment there than in all EU countries combined. And now Russian troops are concentrated on all our borders: Belarus, Russia, Donbass, Azov and Black Seas, Crimea and Transnistria.

--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:54, 5 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Thank you for your explanation; that facts are quite interesting I awaited the response with a fairly high interest in order to read the Ukrainian viewpoint about the linguistic question and the history of Ukraine in this topic, as Russian viewpoint seems to prevail. If you want, as you referred to the Greek populations of Asia Minor, I can explain the historic Greek presence to you detailed and also an idea about the ethnic question in Turkey, within the next days. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 16:48, 5 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello! I supplemented the information a bit, although I was too lazy to type a prepared text about history before 1917, because the first time I typed, a text that you can already read but in a different form, it has not survived. Maybe another time, I'd better give you links to Wikipedia articles that show the history of Ukraine at different stages, as well as give some useful links with comments, in particular on several ethnographic works. *I will be happy to read your opinion on the situation in Turkey, but I am more interested in a few other questions at the moment.

1. Do you have newspapers for 1896 in your libraries? The fact is that your press wrote about the Olympic performances of the first olympian from Ukraine Mykola Ritter, at the Olympics, if there is an opportunity, he was very grateful for the texts of these articles and links to confirm his participation and results.
2. I would like to know if you do not read speculative fiction, if so - there is a question?
3. I want to offer you some links to quality Ukrainian music, and I will gladly listen to Greek singers.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:39, 6 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: The second part of your text is also very interesting. Regarding the economy, I think that was a negative move (at least how the transition was done), as the particular culture of Ukraine and its financial perspectives could have made the country one of the main European economies. I'm not surprised from the overt domination of Russian in the media (I had looked some facts from an article that I translated on Russian language in Ukraine) and music, but it is really surprising how a country is replacing its culture, deliberately with one another. At least Ukraine is not Belarus, and there is a good presence of Ukrainian culture there, as there the domination of Russian is greater there (look for example the statistics of Wikistats for Belarusian Wikipedia, that give the impression that Belarusian is not a national language but of a regional dialect). The situation on trending music songs is similar in Greece, as for example in Shazam around to 90% of songs are in English instead of Greek, although there are a lot of better Greek songs than the English-language ones.

Regarding your questions:

About Mykola Ritter, I search it, looking various issues of newspapers like Akropolis and Skrip. The digital library of the Hellenic Parliament has a very good amount of digitised issues of newspapers in their entirety. I am searching also the issues, which are based in Julian calendar (e.g. 10-11 April 1896, where Ritter competed, is 29-30 March 1896), that was abolished 1924 later than Russia. In the newspaper Akropolis (issue of 30 March 1896-page 373) there is a summary of wrestling, but it speaks only about 4 athletes that Wikipedias write. I will keep researching.
About speculative fiction, I do not read any of these. If we include any kind of digital employment with a topic of speculative fiction, I experiment with alternate history at my computer and viewing some related videos periodically, given that I have a great liking on history.
There are a lot of Greek singers and various quality music genres from Greece. To give you an idea, for example, some forms of greek music are Rempetiko, entekhno, Nisiotika. Also Greece's musical heritage includes Laiko, Greek folk, and religious music (Byzantine music), important in Orthodoxy. The modern Greek musical inventory includes Mikis Theodorakis (probably the most known internationally), Manos Hatzidakis and many more. In the english page List of Greek musical artists some of the most known are given. Giorgos Dalaras, Evridiki, Eleni Foureira, Anna Visi, Tamta (from Georgia), Demis Roussos, Elena Paparizou (a Greek-Swedish singer, who brought the first victory in Eurovision for Greece, in 2005, at Kyiv), Keti Garbi, Glykeria, Marinella, Despina Vandi to name a few. They perform in Greece and abroad. In Greece hip hop/rap is very popular, particulary in the youth.

I have also a few questions, based on the text:

Today which is the situation on music and the media? After the Ukrainianisation laws there is an improvement on the music, or it is not enforced as it should be? How is the linguistic composition of the programmes of the channels today?
Referring on Kuchma and Yanukovych, how is the situation of Ukraine post-2014?

Concluding, I think that Ukraine and Balkans at general (as for example, corruption is approximately the same in our region, and also the income in many Balkan countries, is not very better than that of Ukraine. Corruption is in a bit better score in Slovenia, Greece and Croatia in the region. Regarding economy, Greece used to be approximately equal with Western Europe, but mismanagement and corruption were among the reasons why we had a such financial crisis) worth something very better than today's incumbent political system, and a situation that will match western Europe's as much as possible. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 21:59, 6 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros thanks for the answer! At the moment, more than 80% of the content of TV channels and radio stations are in Ukrainian, but the decision is largely overdue, because young people do not listen to radio or watch terrestrial television, they are captivated by the Internet, and given that most have Russian settings and Russia invests a lot of money in creating trends, most still listen to Russian on the Internet and do not know what to do with it. On the other hand, there is a lot of high-quality music in Ukraine and now it is more than 50% on almost all radio stations, views of Ukrainian-language music on YouTube are also gradually growing, although significantly inferior to Russian-language. Worse than movies, cinemas are now mostly closed and hundreds of new Ukrainian films released over the past 7 years are rarely seen, because few people show them on television, they are not on pirated Russian sites, and almost all Ukrainian free sites are closed according to the new legislation, and paid - more expensive than a trip to the cinema, so guess what the vast majority is watching: correctly guessed Russian pirate sites without Ukrainian-language Ukrainian and foreign content. Television is also not all right: in accordance with EU requirements, analog television has been switched off and in all border areas from Lutsk to Sumy and from Kharkiv to Odessa, Russian television dominates in analogy, I'm not talking about the occupied Crimea and the whole Donbass, because there are ultra-high TVs . Not everyone switched to digital television, especially there, Russian became involved. Most of the others switched to satellite, where he grew up. the television was not blocked. Then they made it even "smarter" and in accordance with the requirements of oligarchic TV channels turned off 30 leading Ukrainian TV channels on the satellite, and people switched mainly to Russian, because no one turned them off, and pay for Ukrainian for peasants and retirees is very expensive, others - and so on internet space. It is very difficult to make poor people pay for something when there is something else and free. So the most pro-Ukrainian and Ukrainianized segments of the population - the elderly and the village are becoming more and more Russified in practice, I have already said about the youth as an unfulfilled hope https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy_wKxVmWb4b0v5DyXmkGprScrO0m5g_B .

The FSB still operates throughout Ukraine under the guise of a Russian church, where open propaganda is carried out, and they do not even want to change the name from the UOC to the ROC in Ukraine in accordance with the law, and the new leader-comedian does not succeed. So the struggle continues, but the methods are too soft to confront the enemy, who does not neglect any methods and acts on the principle, the dirtier the lie, the farther from the truth and closer to the Russian vision will be the middle line drawn by Europeans between Ukrainians. and Russian. positions. An unexpected positive was the closure of three pro-Kremlin channels of Putin's godfather Medvedchuk, which significantly affected the results of opinion polls. Another positive change in the quality of Public Broadcasting, where high-quality Ukrainian music and movies have appeared, unlike commercial channels, unfortunately few people know about it and their ratings are not impressive, because they are used to being ignored as uninteresting channels, only sports and Eurovision help. increase awareness of the new quality of these channels. Public radio is in even less demand, and Public TV, APR, or Public Radio are stubbornly denied digital and FM broadcasting licenses.

From Ukrainian music, I first advise you to listen to

& only Ukrainian-language video:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=RDCLAK5uy_negrUwhxFzLNX-cNi8oB1S_NM_cv94wyU

uk:Список найпопулярніших україномовних музичних відео на YouTube To see the video you need to click on the red link "YouTube". However, here is a less popular but better selection to my liking, and below are the most popular Ukrainian clips regardless of the language as of 2018, but not in Ukraine, but in general, the top twenty is currently here.

NikosLikomitros By the way, have you listened to at least some of the clips mentioned above?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:32, 10 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Mykola Ritter competed in the shooting and wrestling qualifiers on the eve of the 1896 Olympic Games or on Olympic Games. And don't you read science fiction and fantasy at all? Really?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:24, 8 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Thank you for your answers. In Greece similarly much of the TV content is in Greek. It is really interesting how Russian keeps its strong position Personally I don't read books in the genre of fantasy, as my desire for knowledge since my early years have led me to read mostly history books, encyclopedias (Wikipedia and print ones) and other knowledge-related books. Basically this is an important reason why I contribute in Wikipedia. Generally, especially in the Greek youth, books are not so popular due to the prevalence of internet, the orientation of school at the exams, and the advent of technology at general reduces the consuming of books.

About Ritter I have found in the "Asty" (= City) newspaper the portrait of Nikolaos de Ritter, which obviously is Mykola Ritter, with the label "Russian amateur [athlete] in wrestling". In this link, page 324 there is a portrait of Ritter. If you see page 1, Μετάβαση στην σελίδα means go to page. In page 329 we find in the issue of 29 March 1896 (note that this is old style date, which means 10 April 1896 in Gregorian calendar), Mikola Ritter is listed 3th in the today's schedule on wrestling. Link -> is here, page 329. Probably he did not advanced further, as he is not seems to be referred later. Tomorrow I will check and in other newspapers where available, if there is more material. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 22:00, 8 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

- NikosLikomitros As for Ritter, thank you very much, this is something, so he was a participant in the Olympic Games and you provided real proof. I would be glad if you translated a fragment devoted directly to the type of competition with his participation in English and at least broken Russian. Who did he compete with and who did he win in the fight or what points did he score in shooting?

Unfortunately, due to insufficient knowledge of Greek and the antiquity of the first games, foreign language paper encyclopedias for some reason do not mention his participation. As well as the largest electronic encyclopedia

https://www.olympedia.org/results/120000
https://www.olympedia.org/editions/1/result
https://www.olympedia.org/results/120000
https://www.olympedia.org/results/51502
https://www.olympedia.org/results/51500
https://www.olympedia.org/results/51501
https://www.olympedia.org/results/51504 , where there are competitions in wrestling and shooting. Although here I see many more athletes than in the Russian-language paper encyclopedia I have at home in 1979. Ritter himself said that he won the qualification in wrestling and shooting, but for funny reasons for us today refused to participate: I remember only two - he was very shaken during a long voyage and he lost his lucky mascot - our medallion, it seems a gift from the mother. I do not know why these reasons did not prevent him from winning the qualifying competitions and prevented his further participation.

I first read about him in sports magazines.

I will not say about fantasy, but science fiction is closely related to various sciences and encyclopedic knowledge, so I advise you to read, but in principle, for the question that I meant, your interest in alternative history will suffice. The fact is that I have been conducting a Wikipedia survey for several years to recognize the best speculative fiction novels according to Wikipedians, here is a list at the moment and the conditions in Russian, which you know little, although you could ask additional questions. You need to make a list of the best such novels in your opinion. You can only name the alternative fiction novels you have read, although I am sure for some reason that among the novels already mentioned there will be at least a few that you have read that you may have simply forgotten or not perceived as speculative fiction.

Unfortunately, no Greek has yet participated and alternative history is very poorly represented in the list as well. Therefore, even if you can name only the 10 or 20 best novels, I would be very grateful for your participation. Although you can name up to 50 books and it is worth rating them depending on their quality to your liking.

These links can help you:

and Vasyl Kozhelyanko, en:Andriy Valentynov, are considered to be the best authors of alternative history in Ukraine.

I also forgot to tell you that the only Ukrainian digital music channel M1 doesn`t comply with quotas at all and there is only less than 10 percent of Ukrainian music.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:08, 10 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Eurovision/Ukraine Επεξεργασία

Τελευταίο σχόλιο: πριν από 2 έτη19 σχόλια2 πρόσωπα στη συζήτηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! I wanted to ask you, have you watched Eurovision? By the way, I voted for Greece, although in my opinion she was 4th in performance, but I considered the Frenchwoman to be the main competitor of our band, and the Finns and Cyprus did not like some phrases in the songs. Interesting result of Greek viewers and your preferences, if you saw. Because after we did not let a Russian contestant who violated our laws to Kyiv in 2017, the jury constantly evaluates our participants as badly as possible.

@Yasnodark: Yes, in its entirety, straight from the song of Cyprus to the announcement of Italy's victory and its ending, as I like Eurovision for various reasons, including the fact that you can meet various musical traits and musicians from every place of Europe, while they are not so known and TV shows them in a boring manner every few days. It is a less commercialised form of music and promotes the coexistence in Europe, not like America.

By the way I didn't voted for any country, but for me the songs of Switzerland, France, Ukraine, Italy, Cyprus and Greece were the best. I consider that Cyprus, Ukraine, Iceland and Malta worthed something better. Generally there is a lot of regionalisation in Eurovision, and that is obvious even in the televoting. Yes, I noted that Ukraine performed badly in the jury, but fortunately the televoting saved it and provided Ukraine a good position (anyway, Ukraine is one of the most succesful countries recently). In Ukraine I liked the folk tone that it had, but also that it's not in English. Also Greece gave 5 points to Ukraine in televote.

In Greece the result was better than expected, as we got our best position after 8 years, 10th, also the youngest in the history of Eurovision in Greece. Coincidentially Greece appeared tenth, was 10th in jury and televote, and also our announcer was 10 years old, an actor. What's your impression about Cyprus's participation?

You may be also interested on the documentation of Ritter. In the newspaper Asty that I cited, Page 324 writes: Nikolaos de Ritter (Amateur Russian in wrestling). While in the page 329 it writes the following:

(Schedule of present day's program, 29 March 1896). 4:30' - Wrestling: 1) Elliot, England). 2) Schutter, Switzerland. 3) Nikol de Ritter, Russia. 4) Jensen, Denmark. 5) Tapovica, Hungary. 6) Tsitas, Greece. 7) Schuman, Germany. 8) Hristopoulos, Greece. 9) Sabov, Bulgaria. In shooting there are 16 people, 12 Greeks and the American Pain brothers and Nicolson, as well the German Merlin. It doesn't writes something about Ritter or anyone else. I did a look on the newspapers of the time that are likely to have content, and I didn't found something (I will do a repeating check within this week).

I have heard of this pages. Alternate history is unknown in Greece with very few content in Greek. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 17:19, 25 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello! It so happened that our tastes coincided with yours and I singled out the countries you named. I would have put Cyprus in 3rd place in terms of performance, but I didn`t vote for them because of the red suits with a hint of the Known, as well as for Finland because of the hint of obscene language. I liked Switzerland less than Greece, and I considered her and France to be the main competitors of our band, so I voted for Greece. For the first time in the competition. Good performance, but Ukraine is not a competitor. I liked the winners less than the Finns. The weak results in Greece and especially Cyprus were surprising. Just like an invitation to Paparizu, who, in my opinion, in Kyiv simply copied Ruslana. In addition, she is clearly not in shape, and Ruslana, after 18 years, is not a gram of excess weight. I do not consider Paparizu to be the best Greek participant in the last 20 years. Most of all I remember Sakis Rouvas.

The jury votes so not accidentally, but because of an instruction from above four years ago, when we didn't let the Russian participant. For the first time in general, we were given at least some points, because Otorvald put the jury in penultimate place, and a brilliant performance Melovin took last place in the jury and seventh in the audience. The jury is corrupt and biased in most countries. Although all the countries that have won at least twice in the last 30 years - Sweden, Ireland, Israel, Norway - have given Ukraine points, most of the winners during this period are also the country where the EU capital is located. Our participants were not my favorites, but the performance was one of the best and definitely not zero points, as set by the jury of 20 countries. And mostly those who are under the influence of Russia. With the points given to us by the jury - 97, to win we had to take 25 first, 8 second, 5 third and one fourth place. That is unrealistic. But our jury put Italy in first place, France in second place, Switzerland in third place and this result was the only correct one in the end for the top three. I consider the results of the jury to be objective, where the votes of the audience and the jury as a whole coincide. And when Finland, Ukraine and Lithuania received frankly low marks, and not very interesting performances presented by Malta, Bulgaria, Portugal, Belgium - very decent - causes frank surprise and opinions about the pollution.

Thanks for the answers and for Ritter, about the Alternative story you read, I didn't just mean Greek.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:02, 26 Μαΐου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! I wanted to ask you if you were not affected by the fires, because Ukraine sent 100 firefighters to Greece and they say that they are terrible for you? I also wanted to ask if you watched any competitions of the Olympic Games and if you remember any of the Ukrainians. I will note your jumpers.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:27, 10 Αυγούστου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

By the way, but you don't know, maybe you can find in Greek a video or photo from the award ceremony of Ukrainian athletes from the 1992 games in Barcelona: Tatiana Gutsu, Tatiana Lysenko, Olexandra Timoshenko, Oleg Kucherenko, Innessa Kravets and others--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:32, 10 Αυγούστου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: No, in Argos we don't have encountered any problem with the fires, but in Arcadia and Ileia there is significant devastation. The fires even approached the ancient Olympia in Ileia, while in Attica and Evvoia there is much more devastation (and in the latter significant part of the north has been burnt). Also, there is significant anger in many regions, like Evvoia. I would like to thank Ukraine for the significant aid. Many politicians of the governing party, including the prime minister have been criticised for their mishandling of the fires, where there also complaints such as the use of a firefighting vehicle to guard a minister, or the case where a police officer asked if the president of a village asked if he has someone to intermediate for the fires. While there also complaints for the neutrality of the channels' broadcasts (except Open), as they promote the government. I watched some competitions, and if I remember correctly I saw a few Ukrainians. For the jumpers, do you mean Tentóglou? By the way, in Greece ERT was criticised for the premium treatment to Tsitsipas and Sakkari.

NikosLikomitros It's good to know that you are OK. Miltiadis Tentoglou (Did a jumper with turk surname win gold for Greece?) & Katerina Stefanidi, But Sakkari so spoiled the nerves of Ukraine in a duel with Svitolina that she deserved any prize money. And who did you see among the Ukrainians, did you see the battle of Khyzhnyak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYsI0KV1ylk & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKy-f2D6--8 ? I have never seen such an impudent confiscation of a gold medal by refery from our sportsman.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:14, 10 Αυγούστου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

I will search the ERT's archive and I will respond. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 13:56, 10 Αυγούστου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Thank You.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:14, 10 Αυγούστου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Excuse me for the delay. I researched the 1992 content from the archive of television broadcasts of ERT, and I found programming of various kinds but nothing about an Olympic sport in particular. I will search it again later. As you said about Tentoglou, the most areas of Greece had an average of 300 to 550 years of Turkish rule (in Argolis, we had continuous Turkish rule from around 1460 to 1821, but Nafplio was somewhat intermitent with some Venetian rule in 17-18th century. Mani and Ionian islands had no Ottoman rule at all. The extensive Turkish rule in Greece has given a lot of Turkish words, cultural habits and surnames (including surname endings) to Greeks, in such place that many Greeks have Turkish-originated surname (either calqued, translated or in other form that can be etymologised as Turk). Some were forced to change it due to Turkish surnames law in Kemalist Turkey, and emigration from Istanbul/Constantinople (as we call it in Greek) from 1955 and later has brang in Greece more Greeks with Turkish surnames. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 16:25, 5 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Generally, the spread of Turkish surnames in Greece is extensive, however not in the extent that Russian endings exist in Azerbaijan and Central Asia. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 16:28, 5 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! Thank you very much, it's a pity that we couldn't find it, because the relevant videos where Ukrainian athletes sing the Ukrainian national anthem and the Ukrainian flag were raised were removed from YouTube, and due to the lack of broadcasting of the 1992 games in Ukraine, Russia managed to spread the myth of the CIS United Team. However, this association concerned challenging team performances, where there was one license for all, and in individual events, athletes not only represented their newly formed countries, but also sang the anthem and stood next to the national flag. Don't you know that Greece was represented on the Crimean platform (Don't want to create an article?) only at the lowest level - the level of ambassador? And whether this event was covered in Greece, as well as the visit of Patriarch Bartholomew to Ukraine and our Independence Day. And of course the recent visit of our leadership to the United States? And was the Paralympic Games well covered in Greece? (Don't want to create an article Ukraine at the 2020 Summer Paralympics?) --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:36, 6 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Hi. I will check soon if there are at least digitised records of the newspapers of the time. I didn't knew that Ukrainian athletes had sang the Ukrainian anthem at Barcelona, as the team was a mere transitional institution and there wasn't anthem. I hadn't been informed about the Crimean platform and the visit to the US, thank you for the information. I will translate the page later.

About the visit of patriarch Bartholomew in your country, many channels (e.g. the state broadcaster ERT) covered it and spoke about the visit mostly with few information about the independence and its background. The Paralympics were shown extensively in Greek media and ERT broadcasted the matches. Emphasis was given in the performance of Greek athletes and especially the medalists. I will begin making the page about Ukraine's participation. With nearly a hundred medals it is a page that worths making. As you spoke about the fires in a previous message, they have been extinguished some days now but there is a lot of anger against the government about its responsibility, with the unveiling of wind turbines instead of reforestation being a concern and concern about the possibility of floods because now there isn't a good amount of trees as natural barrier. I would like to thank Ukraine for the support in the fighting of the fires. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 15:16, 6 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Hi NikosLikomitros!Thank you for your response and your inspiring promises. I am glad to hear that the fires have been extinguished. Ukrainians are always trying to help,

https://www.unian.info/society/10820981-ukraine-offers-australia-help-to-combat-wildfires-ready-to-send-200-seasoned-firefighters.html

Sorry for the postponed moment that doesn't concern you or Greece. But it is interesting to know how Greece reacts to the situation in Afghanistan, Belarus and Ukraine, and whether they are discussing joint exercises between Russia and Belarus, which will begin soon?

Instead, I am grateful to your Orthodox Church for recognizing our autocephaly. This is very important for us.

The Crimean platform is no less important. The Crimean platform in English can be viewed here. Unfortunately, the ambassadors were not given the floor. However, the Crimean Tatars who took part have already been arrested in Crimea. And there is no serious reaction. Thank you again.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:12, 7 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

P.S. Maybe you also know someone who will be interested in the following proposal https://book-institute.org.ua/uk/news/kategoriya-2/institut-knigi-ogoloshu-start-programi-pidtrimki-perekladiv-translate-ukraine-2021 ? Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 15:12, 7 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση
@Yasnodark: This is good, and people glad to help the vulnerable populace in this world. The Greeks are similarly a people willing to help, and during the previous refugee crisis we hosted thousands of refugees despite the financial problems, although the conditions weren't the best. But now there is a conservative government that is not willing to take Afghans, has many far-right people inside it (even people that have made antisemitic statements in the past), and even the evacuation of Afghans that worked with Greece didn't advance because of the cabinet reshuffle. I would agree with your opinion on Afghanistan.

More than 2 trillion, as I had read a few days ago, had been plundered in the last twenty years. Much more than the GDP of our countries together, and enough money to make Afghanistan the most developed country in the region. Instead the wrong moves allowed Taliban to reorganise. I don't consider unlikely, if Taliban make reforms to the state, to be given the same place with Saudi Arabia. Regarding the equipment left by the Soviet Union, Russia and the US should have allowed Ukraine at least to keep the non-nuclear armaments. The end of the Cold War is a good chance to ease the tensions, ideally phasing out the nuclear weapons in both superpowers, not only in Ukraine, but also allowing Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan to keep their strong non-nuclear deposit in a Swiss-like fashion. Given the American-aided phaseout in Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, Russia and US should have done the same if they wanted to keep the denuclearisation in a good pace. Regarding the integration of Ukraine in EU and NATO, as a democratic state Ukraine should be allowed to become a part of them. If Bulgaria was allowed to enter in 2007, why Ukraine mustn't enter?

There is a similar problem with Greece in the armaments. For example, Greece, as a barrier for Europe against Turkey, is not given F-35s (which are necessary to increase the defensive potential of Greece against Turkey) in order not to provoke Turkey that continues its provocative moves without problem and an EU that doesn't reacts as they should have done against two members (Cyprus has also a problem) and instead some older equipment has been given instead.

No problem. In Afghanistan, we had some mere reactions (announcements, as it is obvious) of the Greek foreign ministry and some attempt to evacuate the Afghans and their families that worked for Greece in the country, but the reshuffle ended the attempt leaving many more vulnerable people behind. In Belarus it was criticised by the opposition for the mishandling of the flight that took place from Athens, and we mostly copy the decisions of EU. In Ukraine, our policy is based in that of the United States and EU. From time to time there are some meetings between the two countries, and there is also some calls from the Greek community of the region (mostly descendants of settlers in 18-19th century) to get the Greek government more engaged to them, without significant outcome. About the Zapad-2021 exercise you will see it mostly as isolated news items in Greek media. It is really disappointing that the foreign powers are interested only for their own and to have good relations with undemocratic or mostly undemocratic states such as China, Russia, Turkey, etc. and not supporting the democratic states of eastern Europe and elsewhere, where the strategic benefit will be more significant. My opinion is also, that Eastern Europe should cooperate more closely in order to safeguard democracy in a way that would benefit the people.

Ukraine is a sovereign country. Obviously the Ukrainian church should be recognised in its own right, as it is done with the most countries. The suppression of Crimean Tatars doesn't surprises me, due to the pro-Ukrainian stance and historical events of the past. By the way, how they discuss in Ukraine the problems between Greece and Turkey? This program to incrase the presence of Ukraine in Wikipedia looks interesting, like the cultural diplomacy month. I will check it later. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 16:44, 7 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros My last question is not about Wikipedia, but about encouraging translations of Ukrainian authors into other languages. That is, translations are allowed not only from Ukrainian, but it is not about Wikipedia. That's why I didn't talk about you personally, but about your probable translators you know.

Nuclear weapons were not abandoned by the Soviet Union in Ukraine, they were created by Ukrainian scientists during the Soviet era. Virtually all the achievements of the USSR in the field of missile technology and space exploration are the achievements of Ukrainians. Russia also took space and all Antarctic stations. We still have non-nuclear weapons, although the navy and aircraft have been almost completely destroyed due to corruption and nuclear disarmament and outside pressure. In any case, only the presence of nuclear weapons had a deterrent.

I oppose nuclear disarmament even now that Ukraine does not exist, because the greatest threat to our planet is in space - other planetary objects and other civilizations. However, it is bad when nuclear weapons are in the hands of a terrorist country.

The conflict between Greece and Turkey is regularly mentioned in the historical aspect, often drawing analogies, but not focusing on specifics. Current events are mainly interpreted as a confrontation between the Republic of Cyprus and the so-called unrecognized Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is of course incorrect. Obviously, you also legalize terrorist organizations in the Donbass. Turkey helps us a lot now and has been our partner for many hundreds of years, and Greece had a relationship with us thousands of years ago and has a very close relationship with Russia, so the attitude towards Turkey is mostly positive, towards Greece is mostly neutral. Although this does not apply to your conflict, there the Ukrainian media and politicians do not prefer the Turks, rather the opposite. Although Greece does not help Ukraine very much, despite the large diaspora. Maybe you will say something else about this. --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 16:00, 8 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros I want to note that I told you about the opinions that are heard in the media, which is what you asked for. My opinions may differ.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:04, 10 Σεπτεμβρίου 2021 (UTC)Απάντηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month 2022 to start soon in Wikipedia https://meta.wikimedia.org/?curid=11706745 --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:28, 14 Φεβρουαρίου 2022 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: Due to the exams my time is limited and I will don't have enough time to write something; but I will note the Agora (village pump) if anyone is interested. Anyway, how is the situation in Ukraine? NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 07:56, 16 Φεβρουαρίου 2022 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello! Recently, massive pseudoming of hundreds of schools in large cities, in addition to cyberattacks continue.. Western countries are intensifying panic and devaluing the hryvnia. Our national bank spent 5% of foreign exchange reserves on currency maintenance. Western diplomats with families and military instructors are fleeing the country, embassies and consulates are being moved from Kyiv and Dnipro to Lviv. Because of this, international airlines cease to fly over Ukraine, and Ukrainian - give airplanes, because insurance companies do not want to insure them. Over the past two days, there have been another powerful cyber attack from Russia and China, mass searches of Crimean Tatars and members of the Mejlis, including a Crimean investigative journalist exposing the occupiers' crimes, have been sentenced to six years. ORDO-DNR and ORLO-LNR "independent states", the Kremlin leader accuses Ukraine of genocide, which he himself commits, in the occupied territories of Donbass allegedly exposed burials of "victims of Ukrainians", in fact - victims of massacres and atrocities of the occupiers, because these Ukrainians they could not do it even theoretically, because this territory has not been controlled for almost 8 years. Yesterday there were 47 series of shelling of settlements in the territories controlled by Ukraine, Russian terrorist forces fired mainly at civilian targets, including schools and kindergartens, where there were dozens of children at the time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RygUyCAQKE . There has not been such a massive shelling for such purposes for more than 5 years, it's just God's providence that there are no casualties. Again, all this is depicted on the central channels of the aggressor country as allegedly shelled Ukrainians. This is all done on the principle of a girdle tincture or attack of the USSR in Finland, they do everything to create a Casus belli . However, Ukrainians also know how to use cocktails for Molotov. And the West's position is even more cowardly than in Chamberlain's time. The collective measure is trying to force Ukraine together with Russia to implement the illegitimate Minsk agreements signed under duress, and to implement unilaterally and in the Russian interpretation. We are offered to get rid of independence and unitarity through Moldova or threatened by the Russian scenario in Georgia: recognition of controlled pseudo-republics followed by an attack on the central government and further real offensive of the occupiers to protect Russian citizens, and Russia has already distributed 800,000 passports in Donbass in the Crimea. Russian troops stretched from Brest in western Belarus to Kamianka in Transnistria, and the Black and Azov Seas were virtually blocked by the Kremlin for navigation. You probably know about Russia's ultimatum. The Russian Union of Veteran Officers, led by General Ivashov https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXOcuzQjzdo&ab_channel=%D0%AD%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D1%8B , unexpectedly protested Russia's invasion of Ukraine and demanded Putin's resignation. The first three Ukrainian presidents https://kuchma.org.ua/kuchma/activities/22389/?back_url=news_main demand proof that the Budapest Memorandum is valid and was not a deception of Ukraine, because the United States together with Russia forced us to give up the world's 4th nuclear arsenal and destroyed our launchers, dusted thousands of Ukrainian planes and helicopters in exchange for empty security guarantees. By the way, Greece is one of the few NATO countries that does not provide even symbolic assistance, unfortunately.

More news about Ukraine: https://english.nv.ua/opinion/hear-the-new-voice-of-ukraine-50209237.html uk:НВ .--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:00, 18 Φεβρουαρίου 2022 (UTC)Απάντηση

2023 Επεξεργασία

Τελευταίο σχόλιο: πριν από 11 μήνες8 σχόλια2 πρόσωπα στη συζήτηση

Hello NikosLikomitros, you may be interested *https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%27s_Cultural_Diplomacy_Month_2023/List &

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CEE_Spring_2023/Structure/Ukraine .--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:58, 14 Μαρτίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση
@Yasnodark: Thank you for referencing them. I will begin to write about Ukraine one of these days. In one week CEE spring begins and I will write my first article on Ukraine. I also invite you to write about Greece these days.

Also you can read this if you have time, which is a new analysis about Ukrainian Wikipedia pageviews that I wrote earlier, in collaboration with Yuriy Perohanych.

By the way, I am happy that you are sound and safe. How is the situation on Ukraine right now? NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 15:04, 14 Μαρτίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση
- NikosLikomitros Hello.Thank you. If you wish me and my family good health, I will be grateful. At night there was another attack by Iranian drones, it was audible. Unfortunately, the West is afraid of Ukraine's victory and transfers weapons very slowly at the expense of our military and civilian casualties. Among our soldiers, the best die, and the worst die on the opposite side. More than 8,000 civilians died in the already free territories, and this is not counting tens of thousands of indirect victims, but ten times more died in Mariupol. According to the approximate data of city officials, 87 thousand people died in Mariupol
https://bykvu.com/eng/bukvy/87-000-documented-deaths-in-mariupol-media-report/ --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:52, 18 Μαρτίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση
@Yasnodark: I wish it, I hope that everyone in Ukraine is well. I checked and other sources, anyway the thousands of casualties are shocking as a loss for the region and Ukraine at general.

Regarding the west, the West tries to keep a balance in order to don't provoke an internationalisation of the conflict, given the standing of Russia (it is still a major power despite the woes of the invasion). Ideally, I think that the West should press Russia to retreat to the 2014 borders, in order to begin the negotiations for a lasting settlement with Donbass returned to Ukraine and Crimea given for a referendum with joint control (although it is unrealistic, as Russia considers these Russian territory and Ukraine wants to reclaim Crimea). Now the situation is heading to a frozen conflict with minor border changes from both sides and this will be a problem for Ukraine but also for Russian citizens. From a strategic point of view, I think that Ukraine should retreat for now from Bakhmut in order to free soldiers (losses for both sides are in the thousands) for the rest of Donbass and prepare an organised offensive to Zaporizhia which is the best place for a counteroffensive (relatively flat territory, and access to Crimea). This war must end with a favourable settlement for Ukraine but not with a humiliatory result for Russia (in order to prepare a smooth transition like in postwar Japan), while preparing a democratic revolution there. Ukrainians are paying a huge price for a free Ukraine, and I admire your bravery.

Regarding the Iranian drones, I heard about it. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 14:22, 18 Μαρτίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση
NikosLikomitros. If Ukraine retreats from Bakhmut, hundreds of thousands people in 5 other cities will be directly affected, and this is not a matter of symbols, besides, thousands of soldiers will be lost during the retreat, so this is an undesirable option, it is unlikely that this war will end in a peaceful conflict and no revolution there will never be a victory in Russia without the victory of Ukraine, there are not the right people there, the only revolution that is still possible there is a revolution of radical Nazis, dissatisfied with the defeat. Ukraine will never freeze and make territorial concessions, because this will be the beginning of a new war with countless victims, like the second Chechen war. The West has never understood Russia and therefore draws wrong conclusions, if weapons were provided in a timely manner, the war would have already ended and the regime would have changed in Russia, and they are afraid of the inevitable collapse of this state and the strengthening of China. The slow provision of weapons brings the international conflict closer, because the best fighters of Ukraine are dying, those people who could quickly master Western technology. By the way, are you discussing arms deliveries from Greece?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:17, 19 Μαρτίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello! You are not writing too actively about Ukraine this year, does it make sense to hope that this will change for the better?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:09, 18 Απριλίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση
@Yasnodark Hello. I know it, but the situation is very bad for both sides, and you must prepare, from a strategic viewpoint, enough supplies and human resource for counterattack. Or the other way could be to prepare a surprise attack in Zaporozh'e, which is very difficult. It is a deadend situation, and Ukraine must regroup. Regarding the revolution in Russia that you say, I don't consider unlikely a provisional shift to a hardliner, although we will have probably a peaceful citizens' revolution demanding change, from the Russian opposition. Ideally Ukraine should reach a way to take Kherson, Zaporozhye, Mariupol and leave Donbass/Crimea: for Donbass, to become a Hong Kong inside a federal Ukraine, Crimea to decide where they want to be, but it is difficult. People have became more pro-Russian by today, and a referendum should show the trends. But I disagree with the plans of Ukraine for Crimea: population exchange with Russia and ejection of Russian language from there. In 1945 Germans were deported from Silesia except for some bilinguals and people deemed necessary for rebuilding, but now many people there know German. Such cultural bans and population exchanges are not good. Also in Greece we continue to send a few stuff, Russian media speak even about sending S300 to Ukraine, although this will not happen probably because Greece has signed a non-export contract, if I remember well, and they wait for Patriots. Also, as Ukraine loses soldiers, this may be a threat for Zelenskyy, as the families of lost soldiers will ask answers. Ukraine government speaks for low numbers, however (in pro-Russian TG channels, note: I read pro-Ukrainian media and pro-Russian TG channels to take both viewpoints, and what I see is two very different worlds) they say for 157,000 (Russian losses are also in six-digits, as I have heard by various estimations). Leaked US documents say for 35 to 45 thousand Russian losses, around 15 to 17 thousand for Ukraine, and generally it is very difficult to get accurate data.

The West is behaving by this way because sending manpower to Iraq is acceptable for the Americans, in 2003, but Putin would obviously answer with world war because this is a red line for Russia as it is nuclear power. If Russia hadn't nukes, the things would be probably different. The collective West is also afraid of a post-RF world, because we may have a smooth transition with independences for Caucasian nations and autonomy for the rest (I bet this will probably happen), or even a full civil war, a danger even for Ukraine. Local oligarchs, generals, reformists, Putinist/RF remnants, democrats vying for power with nuclear weapons. This is what the West is afraid. And you don't want a hellish situation in the very important part of Eurasia. Of course I am not pro Putin, but this is the fear of the West. The situation has been stabilised in favour of Ukraine as it has been keeping Russia away from major gains, however I don't think situation will change very much, and we may see an Israel-like situation. But let's see how the counterattack will go. If I was the Ukrainian president and I was asked what to do here, I would withdraw from Bakhmut, accumulate the soldiers in the line of Melitopol, and do a counterattack. Much like the battle of Taranto that was a surprise attack successful for United Kingdom. But at general, I would ask a second referendum in Crimea and would give autonomy to Donbass. The war and the second national tragedy of Ukraine could have been avoided. Putin's regime killed thousands of Ukrainians, sent millions outside of their homes, and destroys its own nation as well. I heavily dislike Putin, that must be tried for corruption, murders of journalists, I prefer a democracy instead, but the West could have driven Ukraine to a full peace with autonomous Donbass and federal Ukraine, and a second referendum for Crimea, rather than buying time for a confrontation (in Greece, America is blamed as well, and the same thing has been admitted by Hollande to possibly Kremlin-related Russian pranksters, by the way) which has caused more destruction in Ukraine than Russia itself.

Also, here an interesting article about Ukraine that I found. For Ukraine I wrote about the national costume, vyshyvanka, and I will do something very soon. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 00:48, 19 Απριλίου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Hello! Thanks for your article about Ukraine, but maybe you would like to write some more articles from the following list:

P.S. If you knew and understood what the Russians are doing in the occupied territories and the scale of their war crimes and abuse of the local population, you would not propose to conclude a separate peace, because the Ukrainian government will never agree to it, because it will be demolished immediately and the government will come that will not surrender Ukrainian interests and territories. Compromises are possible only in exceptional cases due to certain actions of the West and large subsequent losses? Best wishes — Yasnodark (разговор) 15:41, 18. април 2023. (CEST)

Hello NikosLikomitros, would you mind creating an article about the most famous Ukrainian magazine NV and the most comprehensive https://english.nv.ua/ of those socio-political publications that have an English-language version of "The New Voice of Ukraine" https://twitter.com/NewVoiceUkraine?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor ?.

I suggest you read this article by en:Judy Dempsey on https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope

You may also be interested in articles and thoughts :

https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/ukraine-war-insights-by-austrian-military-analyst-tom-cooper/

Peter Dickinson

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/expert/peter-dickinson/

en:Bill Clinton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIp-r4KAWxQ

Yulia Sanina

.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:00, 5 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Eurovision 2023 & Turkey Επεξεργασία

Τελευταίο σχόλιο: πριν από 11 μήνες20 σχόλια2 πρόσωπα στη συζήτηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! Did you see this year's Eurovision broadcast on television, because I am very curious if in Greece the equally normal sound of the artists' performances was practically absent and gave the impression of background sound?

Because it is important for me to understand whether it is a Ukrainian or an international problem in telecasting. If of course you watched the competition on TV and not on the Internet.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:40, 10 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark Yes, I saw it from ERT (state broadcaster). There wasn't any technical problem, probably it was in Ukraine. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 12:48, 10 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Thanks for the answer, the broadcast of the second semi-final was already with normal sound. It's a shame that the organizers made Yulia Sanina's image so pop. I think this is very wrong. This year's representative of Greece also looked quite strange for a representative of your country, more like a representative of Northern Europe than the Balkans. Did you like it?

You probably have more information about the elections in Turkey, the opposition in that country is likely to be more liberal and less authoritarian and will this leave it independent in its own way and will it make it more pro-European and less pro-Russian? Erdoğan is an authoritarian but predictable leader with poor prospects and no radical movements right now and whether the new leader, if elected, can make Turkey a more NATO country so that membership is not formal and there is no sitting on two chairs between NATO and Russian benefits, will he allow an independent position for himself and will he be able to give up the S-400 and Russian energy resources and tourist and transit money? Is it possible, on the contrary, to become a puppet of the Kremlin, and words about rapprochement with the West will remain just words. What do they say about it in Greece?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:06, 12 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark No problem then. I didn't observed it, however I liked the Ukrainian that' the co-host said as well the attempt of the British host to say "Об'єднаною музикою". I like Ukrainian language at general. This year's representative is looking for northern European because his name is Victor Vernicos Jörgensen, as he has a Danish mother. Since Katerina Douska (a Greek Canadian) there is a tendency to give the ticket to diaspora Greeks with moderate success. Now some sources say that they will reinstate a contest for the selection like Vidbir in Ukraine.

Yes, in Greece we have a lot of analysis about Turkey elections and the channels speak very much about it. They say about how a victory of Kılıçdaroğlu (they side with Kılıçdaroğlu) will redemocratise Turkey, that they will mend relations with Greece and they will have a more pro western government. But Turkey has began to take a distance from the west although the Turkish elite (especially the kemalist, I think) favours the west and the government is always nationalist (in its early years AKP didn't cause many provocations) I don't think that we will have great policy changes in comparison with today. Certainly Kılıçdaroğlu will calm down a bit and make a sort of rapprochement with the West, but I don't think that he will wipe out the relationship with Russia entirely. However it will not be like the Erdoğan's time. Also there is no reason to be afraid that Turkey will become a puppet, simply because it hasn't the influence and the financial power to make it.

See here: https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2023/05/11/how-turkeys-opposition-leader-would-shake-up-ankaras-foreign-policy/

Generally Kılıçdaroğlu is going to become a better option than Erdogan, but regarding Greece I am not very confident. On NATO, he will increase cooperation. But they must learn to respect the sovereignty of Greece, and Greece to become confident. Often the Greek government is afraid of Turkey.

What they say in Ukraine about the Greek elections? (If they say anything). NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 14:36, 12 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros The last time we actively mentioned the Greek factor in connection with the blockade of Mariupol. I personally heard about Greek politics in our news back in the days when Tsipras was your leader, that is, quite a long time ago. Although in those days Greece was only in the top 15-20 countries in terms of the frequency of mentions, now, unfortunately, its place in our information field is in 35-40th place. But I will be glad to receive more up-to-date information from you.

By the way, English-language broadcasts appeared on the Hromadske Radio page on Saudicloud https://soundcloud.com/hromadske-radio --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:07, 14 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Anyway I am looking forward for Saturday's final. Some songs that I liked are the Czech, the Ukrainian and the Albanian. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 14:42, 12 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Interesting. For Turkey, you asked my insight and I hope you found it well (although I couldn't predict the near total victory of Erdoğan).

Now in Greece, we have election on Sunday. But the society doesn't gives the attention it gave in the past. The times of rallies with thousands, thousands of people have passed now. Turnout has unfortunately fell to 58% one of the lowest in the EU. I will vote in the election, I also participate in the student movement so I am not the kind of the absent student. Regarding Ukraine, the parties say that we must support Ukraine, the communist party says that it is an imperialist conflict (it is, because in Ukraine we have the conflict of the two imperialist powers, Russia and United States for influence), minor parties are in favour of Russia. Greek government also tends to be in favour of Kılıçdaroğlu because of their pro NATO and EU agenda.

Economy: The economy doesn't goes very well. High rents, high prices on anything and the government does very few to face it. It espouses a form of neoliberalism so it sanctions in a form all of these events. It is difficult to buy a home, or to make an independent living in Greece these days (even to rent!) and because of this many young people are forced to emigrate or do something else than this they studied in university. New Democracy tries to privatise education, and liberate auctions of houses.

Society: The society is evolving. It is generally one of the most progressive in the region. After the crime of the rail crash in Tempi (clarification: I term it as a crime, because the chronic neglect and privatisation of the railway network by ND, PASOK and Syriza made all the preconditions for this to happen; we could have averted it) we see a repoliticisation of the society and a greater participation in the protests and public activities and the participation in the student elections has grew (I was a candidate with the Panspoudastiki of the communist party by the way; there is a lot of participation in the student elections in Greece but severely decreased). We have a rejoice that the participation grows.

See here, here and here to take an example. Or here (what says Diadilosi gia ta Tempi in Patra) to take an idea of what it happens. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 13:36, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros I just didn’t like the Czech Republic in the first semi-final, I remember Israel, from the second I support Estonia, but there are still a few good participants, but we need to rewatch them in the final.

Some of us see plagiarism in Loreen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lD0-1Uplms to a old clip from more 16 years ago by en:Mika Newton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8wuuCkHkds . What do you say about this?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:10, 13 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Found another video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfrdOQEUwA

Your opinion is interesting if you listen to them one by one.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:14, 13 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

P.S. You may also be interested in this article

https://english.nv.ua/life/ukraine-wartime-eurovision-playlist-by-nv-ukraine-news-50324032.html --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:35, 13 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Hello NikosLikomitros! Have you seen my previous answers and questions?

If I were a member of the jury, I would vote as follows

12 Estonia 10 Norway 8 France 7 Israel 6 Italy 5 Sweden 4 Lithuania 3 Slovenia 2 Poland 1 Switzerland , it is interesting to know your final choice and your opinion about plagiarism in the winning song.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:30, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

In the Czech I liked the feminist notion. I liked Cyprus, Ukraine (I left my vote), Armenia and Finland to name some.

Regarding Loreen's plagiarism, yes, we also speak about it in Greece because the 2014 song of Georgia Dağaki, Sketos ego, as it seems, has been possibly plagiarized by Loreen's team.

I saw a video and I find some similarity. I heard some of the song of Mika Newton, and yes, the opening part looks as an exact copy paste in a good degree.

What is my opinion: EBU should make an investigation, and if a plagiarism is found, then the win is cancelled and contest assigned to Finland (together with Käärijä considered winner). NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 13:13, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

I saw them all.

Opinion: 12 points to Cyprus (copying thus the famous Eurovision alliance), 10 to Ukraine, 8 to Israel, 7 to Armenia, 6 to Czechia, 5 to Serbia, 4 to Poland, 3 to Sweden, 2 to Finland and one for Lithuania. That would be my vote.

In Greece, the media often discuss highly important matters. Now they devote some time to the fact that Greece gave 4 points to Cyprus, although I fully disagree with the move.

Ukraine had a good song, praising the resistance of the Ukrainian people, despite the problems. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 13:17, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros Thanks. Unfortunately, not always everything is decided by the real impression of the jury members from the numbers. But after we didn't allow a Russian propaganda artist to Kyiv in 2017, who repeatedly violated Ukrainian legislation, the Eurovision jury has instructions not to give us high scores and even last year, when it seemed that this ban was lifted, the juries of 6 countries whose scores were announced were not theirs representatives, and the Eurovision curator, gave Ukraine 12 points, but strangely they turned into much smaller points for "Kalush", and Britain received 12 points and it was not corrected, in other years everything was much worse.

So "Tvorchi" received 54 points by jury and three times more from the audience. It’s hard for me to say what place our group should have had, but exactly 54 points from the jury is a very dubious assessment, in general I have always been against the return of jury points, for example, in our jury in past years there were often completely undeserved and little-known people of music. I think the place of our group as a whole is fair, but the points from the jury are absolutely not. But our scores from the audience of some countries, on the contrary, may be inflated due to large flows of refugees from Ukraine to these countries after the start of the second stage of the war.

Until 2017, this didn't happen, although there were manipulations and bribery, in particular from Russia, when Vierka Serdyuchka and Ani Lorak were supposed to win, as for Zlata Ognevich, there were other reasons, but the fact is that either she or the Albanian participant should have won , there were big problems with the first two participants, the essence of which I don't remember, but nothing was fixed either. That's why I don't believe in correcting Loreen's results - I may have liked her performance the most, but it contained pure plagiarism for 4 songs, but the Swedish reviewers said everything was fine, but I didn't like the Finns at all, even though the song was without plagiarism.

It is insulting to Ruslana, 7 Ukrainian artists and no song from the first winner of the competition from Ukraine with a then record result, even 10 silent seconds in the frame gave such a result https://kworb.net/charts/shazam/se.html and the Irish participants called its the best from Ukraine for all years. Only after the indignation of Eurofans & her fans did these footage and her concert in Liverpool appear, and she shouldn't be there at all.

Although in general we still have to rejoice because the Georgians with the words of the song "Put in" https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-georgia-eurovision-idUKTRE52A4S920090311 were not allowed to enter the competition.

If there is time and desire to listen and see at least part of the compositions, I would also like to know your impression. Unfortunately, the Greek participant did not suit me, I voted for Estonia, but I liked Norway and France a little more.

Although it has nothing to do with Wikipedia, I really want to bring you a selection of my favorite artist Julia Sanina from the band The Hardkiss, I will start with the song Helpless, as in our selection for Eurovision 2016 took second place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v = YoLVYj0tTdA, scoring the same number of points as Jamala, who won the competition that year, but I think that any of our semifinalists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epb0Ip4ae4 1 & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v = jV_uWTDilAg . Then 2 could take a high place and at least 5 - to win, but The Hardkiss would no doubt take first place, as well as Jamala. By the way, many people think that our National selections are stronger than the Eurofinals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJAYHQty9Gk THE HARDKISS - Make-Up (official video) 9 930 401
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBgdXGQAHQM THE HARDKISS - Журавлi (official video) 26 011 767
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a3g_3NruWU THE HARDKISS - 7 вітрів (official video) 1 618 048
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFdcJJyrIHE THE HARDKISS - Helpless (official video) 6 499 811
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAmzK6JEgdg THE HARDKISS - Shadows Of Time (official video) 5 520 244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quZSuSg-ZuE THE HARDKISS - Stones (official video) 12 666 845
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIx_W9BDKpA THE HARDKISS - Кораблi (official video) 21 497 526
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgr9AEyySbo THE HARDKISS - Жива (official video) 7 958 342
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRMH-EHscb8 THE HARDKISS - TONY, TALK! (official video) 5 499 756
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUiei0yqlas THE HARDKISS - Мелодія (official video) 11 199 725
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUl38BH2UYI THE HARDKISS - October (live piano version) 897 675
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHRuCsSz2GA THE HARDKISS - Антарктида (official video) 7 101 742
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYsHhzlleMI THE HARDKISS - Rain (official video) 4 614 792
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcsS6clmLsQ THE HARDKISS - Free Me (official video) 2 329 252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fLtqC2BqFo THE HARDKISS - Коханці (official video) 6 354 211
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Y7pR92Blo THE HARDKISS - In Love (official video) 967 910
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP-6Gjt-A3w THE HARDKISS - Сестра (official video) 2 095 865
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYw7Sd17vKE THE HARDKISS - Babylon (official video) 651 218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivroIGMAVig THE HARDKISS - Гора (official video) 4 640 766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny8vYpwBnmo THE HARDKISS feat KAZAKY - Strange Moves (official video) 5 631 336
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqQ9W0_BBM THE HARDKISS feat. MONATIK - Кобра (official video) 17 357 181
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg-mQuzzbmc The Hardkiss Under The Sun 29 692
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc4XDit_I8s THE HARDKISS - Серце (official video) 4 980 683
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvomsjB56P0 The Hardkiss - Doctor Thomases 4 477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol5aHdQADVQ THE HARDKISS - Косатка (official video) 2 154 166
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ064ee8fek Ми з України. Пісня Хіт про Україну | Співають всі зірки 72 763

If there is time and desire to listen and see at least part of the compositions, I would also like to know your impression.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:26, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark Thank you. I have heard about Yuliya Samoilova, although I think she should have been given the ability to participate remotely, to comply with the Ukrainian legislation.

Can you give me a source for that ban? Because Ukraine has topped the Eurovision ranking lists, reaching almost always the top ten, with few exceptions in the last years.

I saw that Tvorči went not so well in jury, as Kalush did, and the gap was filled through the televoting process. Probably you're right. At first however I didn't want Sweden to win, because I want to see a rotation. Victories from many countries, not just a repeat of Sweden, Italy, Israel, Ukraine (although you have good songs), Netherlands, Denmark, who have 3 and 4 wins.

For the song, I don't think that there is a problem for the Georgian song. While I would like to hear some Ruslana in the contest, there was at least some Stefania. I liked more or less, the songs I referred. Vernicos was considered very difficult to pass at any case, I was very doubting that he will go past the semifinal. His voice is still needing more training, and he's too young to compete by my opinion in an environment of expertised singers. He would be more successful in Eurovision junior, if we're competing in it. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 18:22, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Thank you for the songs. I will check them. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 18:22, 16 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros It was an unspoken backstage recommendation for the national juries in 2017-2018 under the previous head of Eurovision and later by inertia. Perhaps there was some influence on the audience voting, but this cannot be unequivocally stated. In 2017, the band "O'Torvald" with "Time" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mogNLkIEI0k & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KWZ4CKapPA received only 12 from the jury. Melovin with "Under The Ladder" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1yoAtjhkzQ & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKM8c-9rGC0 only 11 points from the jury and the last place according to the jury, and with the arrival of the new leader Martin Esterdahl, the situation improved and there was obviously no direct ban on points for Ukraine, but still the band Go A with "SHUM" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvzDkgok_g & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7-dxzp6Jvs received second place from the audience with a result of 267 points and only one place from the jury with a score of 97 points. I already said about the winning year 2022, even with an undeniable advantage, they tried to twist something strange and the scores of 6 countries were announced in a completely distorted form by the officials of the competition instead of the national announcers, and strangely, Ukraine had significantly lower scores, and the British scored significantly lower, which took 2nd place. Ukraine still won, but the contest was still handed over to Britain, they did a decent job and presented Ukrainian accents, but we have many places where safety could have been preserved: the Kyiv metro, where U-2 performed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8DUWpiqxJM or Dnipro metro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcOCl2WlGMI , or the salt mines in Transcarpathia, in Solotvino for example, where they sang at one time even opera singers, as it was done in Soledar in 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSbhNaX6_6Q before its capture .--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 11:55, 17 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Jury scores rigged in the final 2022: more details Επεξεργασία

After the announcement of the voting results in the Eurovision final on May 15, and the sum of the points from the national juries, the panel of at least 6 countries declared that the results were falsified, in particular, the juries of Georgia and Azerbaijan actually gave the representative of Ukraine not 6, but the maximum 12 points. Similar incidents occurred with the falsification of jury results in Romania, Montenegro, Poland and San Marino, where the real scores of various countries were also changed^[1]^[2]. The day after the final, the Romanian television company TVR accused the EMC of "changing the rules" and asked for additional clarification of the incident. In its initial decision, the Romanian jury awarded 12 points to Moldova. /reactia-tvr-dupa-descalificarea-juriului-romaniei-la-eurovision-regulile-au-fost-schimbate-in-timpul-jocului-1940266|website=www.digi24.ro|accessdate=2022-05-16|language =ro}}</ref>. The Montenegrin broadcaster RTCG has also asked for further clarification on this situation^[3]. During the announcement of the results of the jury voting, the votes of Azerbaijan, Romania and Georgia were announced by Martin Esterdahl, executive producer of the competition. It was stated that this was due to technical difficulties when contacting the representatives of these countries, but TVR and İTV claimed that no technical difficulties occurred during the jury's voting in the final of the competition^[4]^[5].

Indeed, the Georgians used a "play of words" and everything was fair, but still the Georgian band with the song "Put in" was not allowed to perform at Eurovision 2009 after the invasion of the Russian Federation in Georgia due to the fact that it affects the interests of the Russian Federation. Although, of course, they officially told the fool that this could negatively affect the image of the contest, in fact, it was the similar condoning of aggression in Georgia, and before that in Chechnya and even earlier in the same Georgia and Transnistria, that made possible Russia's crimes in Ukraine, and then Syria, central, northern and western Africa, and finally again in Ukraine, and only now they have understood something, although judging by the posts about peace and surrender of territories, still not all.

P.S. I found an interesting video from Greece about Ukrainian songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLPygqZG6ag --Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:54, 17 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

& Chronology of Ukrainian language suppression

https://chytomo.com/putivnyk-z-istorii-utyskiv-ukrainskoi-movy/ A guide to the history of oppression of the Ukrainian language
https://www.istpravda.com.ua/digest/2012/07/3/89519/ How they fought with the Ukrainian language. Chronicle of bans for 400 years

NikosLikomitros Did you manage to watch any of the video clips I suggested for viewing by the band "Hard Kiss" and Yulia Sanina?---Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 12:54, 17 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

Double rate for aid to Ukraine Επεξεργασία

Τελευταίο σχόλιο: πριν από 7 μήνες5 σχόλια3 πρόσωπα στη συζήτηση

NikosLikomitros hello, Greece unexpectedly quickly joined the declaration of the "Big Seven" on guarantees of security assistance to Ukraine, it is only the 14th country, I wonder if the media talked about this in Greece and in what format and under what conditions of aid this accession took place, because for me it happened quite unexpected, because your country did not act so decisively before. What do you think these changes are related to, and what level of help from Greece can our country expect in this regard? I also heard the news that a Greek ship with grain was following the Black Sea, which was also a decisive action. The questions are the same. Thank you for changing the course of Greece regarding the events in Ukraine and I hope that this is not a random episode in the policy of the Greek leadership...--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:43, 20 Αυγούστου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

NikosLikomitros, It's good that you prepared me for the fact that everyone in Greece, thanks to Russian propaganda, unfairly considers desperate defenders from the "Azov" brigade to be Nazis, however, the behavior of Greek fans and journalists during the match and press conference with "Dynamo Kyiv" was shocking. And what was the reaction of Greek society as a whole and of your acquaintances? And does anyone in your country call for a ban on the broadcasting of Russian TV channels? What is the position of the "New Democracy" party on these two issues? Because I understand that this is the only Greek party that has at least a little understanding of the essence of the Russian-Ukrainian war. Given the fact that she is in power, does it somehow affect Ukrainian-Russian relations and who is her coalition partner?--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 13:43, 20 Αυγούστου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

You use your user page for all of the intended purposes. This is unacceptable and will be reported in the admin notebook 77.49.91.255 16:35, 20 Αυγούστου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

I will take your comment into consideration for the future, I mostly deleted the least suitable text.--Yasnodark (συζήτηση) 14:07, 21 Αυγούστου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

@Yasnodark: I think it should be better to put an email address, and continue communicating privately. NikosLikomitros (συζήτηση) 00:56, 21 Αυγούστου 2023 (UTC)Απάντηση

↑ -that-at-eurovision-they-gave-12-points-to-ukraine-and-not-britain Georgia and Azerbaijan say that at Eurovision they gave 12 points to Ukraine and not Britain
↑ [https ://www.euronews.com/culture/2022/05/16/eurovision-jury-results-of-six-countries-removed-after-voting-irregularities-identified Eurovision: Jury results of six countries removed after 'voting irregularities 'identified]
↑ magazin/eurosong/362902/trazimo-pojasnjenje-od-ebu-glasanje-proteklo-u-redovnoj-proceduri-.html «Tražimo pojašnjenje od EBU, glasanje proteklo u rednoj proceduri» Check |url= value (βοήθεια). RTCG - Radio Televizija Crne Gore - Nacionalni javni servis (στα me). Ανακτήθηκε στις 16 Μαΐου 2022. CS1 maint: Μη αναγνωρίσιμη γλώσσα (link)
↑ { {Cite web|title=🇦🇿 Azerbaijan: Public Television Requests Explanation From EBU Regarding Eurovision Jury Voting|url=https://eurovoix.com/2022/05/16/azerbaijan-requests-explanation-from-ebu-jury-voting /|website=Eurovoix|date=2022-05-16|accessdate=2022-05-16|language=en-GB}}
↑ Granger, Anthony (15 Μαΐου 2022). «🇷🇴 Romania: TVR Responds to Removal of Romanian Jury From Eurovision 2022 Voting». Eurovoix (στα Αγγλικά). Ανακτήθηκε στις 16 Μαΐου 2022.

Προσθήκη θέματος

[1] -that-at-eurovision-they-gave-12-points-to-ukraine-and-not-britain Georgia and Azerbaijan say that at Eurovision they gave 12 points to Ukraine and not Britain

[2] [https ://www.euronews.com/culture/2022/05/16/eurovision-jury-results-of-six-countries-removed-after-voting-irregularities-identified Eurovision: Jury results of six countries removed after 'voting irregularities 'identified]

[3] zin/eurosong/362902/trazimo-pojasnjenje-od-ebu-glasanje-proteklo-u-redovnoj-proceduri-.html «Tražimo pojašnjenje od EBU, glasanje proteklo u rednoj proceduri» Check |url= value (βοήθεια). RTCG - Radio Televizija Crne Gore - Nacionalni javni servis (στα me). Ανακτήθηκε στις 16 Μαΐου 2022. CS1 maint: Μη αναγνωρίσιμη γλώσσα (link)

[4] { {Cite web|title=🇦🇿 Azerbaijan: Public Television Requests Explanation From EBU Regarding Eurovision Jury Voting|url=https://eurovoix.com/2022/05/16/azerbaijan-requests-explanation-from-ebu-jury-voting /|website=Eurovoix|date=2022-05-16|accessdate=2022-05-16|language=en-GB}}

[5] Granger, Anthony (15 Μαΐου 2022). «🇷🇴 Romania: TVR Responds to Removal of Romanian Jury From Eurovision 2022 Voting». Eurovoix (στα Αγγλικά). Ανακτήθηκε στις 16 Μαΐου 2022.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]